Saturday, February 2, 2013

Please Share Your Brio Birth Experience!

At the top of this page, you will find a new tab called "Brio Birth Testimonials".  Please comment on that page to share the story of your personal experience with Brio Birth.  Only factual comments sharing personal experiences will be permitted on that page.  Any other comments will be deleted, though you are welcome to post them on other blog posts as appropriate.  Thank you for sharing your stories!  Hopefully they will give good information to those considering involvement with Brio Birth.

84 comments:

  1. Maybe you should post that on your Facebook page too.

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  2. Well, I'll put that right out there. I saved my BBB complaint in full. You can read clearly my story and the responses from Brio Birth, LLC for yourselves. I think it clearly shows how they manipulate the truth and never admit their own faults.

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxnTkCqTpLlOUEdwRkwzdVZNTEE/edit?usp=sharing

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  3. I'll be honest. I'd really like to share my story, but the Brio Dark Era was not pretty at our house, and it took a long time to recover, financially, emotionally and mentally. I am very open with sharing my story with individuals, but posting it online somewhere, I'm afraid, would simply invite drama and re-open a massive can of worms that it took a ton of work to close. I would do it anonymously, but in order to fully share the story, it would require sharing details that would most definitely alert the Brio crazies to my identity. So let me simply say that what I experienced was a time of being used, abuse, and conned. Kyle Thomas is a master manipulator and smooth talker. I'll just tell the folks considering jumping in with Brio, if something doesn't add up, or if you have red flags, please, don't ignore them. Ask the tough questions that you have, and don't accept answers that don't make sense.

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  4. Karl can you tell us what is happening with getting back control of the Facebook group?

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  5. I think Kylomi must have found some money, cause their Facebook likes are going up even though they aren't posting much.

    Karl when can you put a stop to this scam?

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  6. Wow Naomi is complaning about people stealing her Facebook content? Really?

    http://resourcefulmommy.com/10259/hands-off-our-content/comment-page-2/

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  7. Ironic and hypocritical. That's really the pot calling the kettle black, isn't it? (And for those of you who want to see what the above post is talking about, scroll down to the very last comment in the comments section.)

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  8. Why is Brio's website now pointing to this website: http://www.blogher.com/bloggers-beware-you-can-get-sued-using-photos-your-blog-my-story ????

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    1. I guess Karl corrected it. The brio website now points here.

      Delete
  9. Yes, and I called her out on the comment and it was deleted. Twice.

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  10. Karl,
    You were finally doing the right thing and helping to put an end to this scam, but now you've disappeared. We know you are around, since you now have briobirth.com going to the blog about IP theft.

    Would you give us an update? What is happening with criminal complaint you filed against Kyle? What is happening about shutting down the Facebook group? How can we finally stop more damage from being done to the birth community?

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  11. Karl has been super duper busy building his newest business. He's up working until about 2 and up around seven every morning and only take Sundays off for church and the family, plus I won't let him work on Sunday's out of observance of the Sabbath (but he stays up until midnight so he can work for a few hours before going to bed), so he really just doesn't have any extra time at the moment. Facebook has been unresponsive as far as I know, which is frustrating and disappointing. We had a bit of trouble for a short period of time (when briobirth.com was pointing at the other place) because the Thomas's filed an official complaint with ipower, but we got it sorted out. That's all I know as of now.

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  12. Anyone else hear that Naomi is no longer an admin on the BPI Facebook page?

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  13. As far as I can tell, she's not.

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  14. Debbie Young used to be aligned with Brio, right? This just in from InJoy:

    "n our continuing efforts to better support our customers, InJoy welcomes Debbie Young, CD, PCD, as our new Customer Relations Manager.

    "As the former president of DONA International and a Certified Childbirth Educator, Debbie has spent 20+ years working with more than 2,000 families as an educator in hospitals and as a postpartum doula and doula trainer. She brings her vast experience in the maternal health profession to work alongside InJoy’s sales team by educating customers to get the most out of InJoy products.

    "'I’ve been fortunate to have found my passion in helping pregnant, birthing, and postpartum families while at the same time raising my own children,' says Debbie. “Joining InJoy feels like an expansion of my heart-work."

    "In her role, Debbie will help InJoy customers maximize the impact of their educational offerings and is available for eClass and other product demonstrations."

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  15. Has anyone heard anything new? Karl disappeared, Brio is still on facebook, and the site is still pointed here. Are they still doing anything other than scamming people on facebook?

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  16. Stupid Bitchy TrollApril 13, 2013 at 9:00 PM

    Kyle is still registered with the State of Colorado owning the TM (trade mark) for Brio Birth LLC. Karl has been registered with the State of Colorado owning the Brio Birth(tm) since January 2012 with an address in Castle Rock, Colorado. This was news to me, maybe it is old to you.

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  17. Where do you see that? I see that they have registered businesses with those names, but that is different than owning a TM. Oh and Kyle's company is now Delinquent, and Karl's is Noncompliant. Also Embrion Group's corporate status in Nevada is now Revoked.

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  18. Stupid Bitchy TrollMay 2, 2013 at 7:58 PM

    The Colorado Secretary of State website

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  19. I see them registered as an LLC, although they are delinquent, but it doesn't say trademark.

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  20. Stupid Bitchy TrollMay 16, 2013 at 1:13 AM

    No clue what you are talking about. Go to the trademark section and you will see that they have registered what I mentioned above...that means that they own the name they have submitted and no one can use it...unless it is challenged.

    I register several words to be registered TM...I own those words now and others can not use them.

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  21. When you go to http://www.sos.state.co.us/biz/BusinessEntityCriteriaExt.do and you search for Brio Birth you get two records. Neither of them is a Trademark registration. One is an Articles of Organization and the other is a Foreign Entity Authority registration. Those are not Trademark registrations. The Colorado Secretary of State website does not return any Trademark for Brio Birth.

    Also both Kyle's record(Brio Birth LLC) and Karl's record(Brio Birth) are either Noncompliant or Delinquent for failing to file their paperwork. Big surprise there. Even if they did registered it on this site that only covers Colorado, and there is no Federal request to register Brio Birth at all.

    At one point Kyle put Trademark Pending on the Brio site, but that was never true.

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  22. Stupid Bitchy TrollMay 16, 2013 at 7:52 PM

    Due tell...I guess it was in March when I looked this all up and Brio Birth, with Karl K filling the TM, was in good standing with some kind of Colorado Seal of Good Standing. I nearly puked.

    I ran into this blog in April...I just checked it again and your current information is correct.

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  23. Karl, are you aware that Kyle still claims to be working for you? His LinkedIn account now says he is a farmer again, but still says he works for Embrion Group. http://www.linkedin.com/in/kylethomas

    Would anyone believe him when he tried to sell you organic vegetables? NO WAY...

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    1. I know Kyle and his family personally and I HAVE bought organic vegetables from him. As recently as two weeks ago. I can't speak for what happened in the past, I only know what I see now. And I see a young, hardworking family struggling to get back on their feet, trying to rebuild their lives. I also see a very loving husband and happy children. Shame on those of you that are spreading rumors and beating a dead horse. Forgive, forget and move on with your lives.
      Matthew 5:22-24: "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift."

      Delete
    2. We'll see how you feel when you find out what was really in the vegetables you bought.

      Don't say you weren't warned, and the shame should be on Kyle and Naomi for what they have done to damage the lives of so many. They have never owned up to what they did, and obviously continue to scam people.

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    3. I'm not sure that not giving refunds constitutes "damaging the lives of so many."
      Are you insinuating that they injected something into the produce I purchased? You're joking, right? It's a shame that you are unable to move on with your life and are holding on to so much hate. How did Kyle and Naomi personally destroy YOUR life? How are they still scamming people? Please stop making wild allegations without any proof. I simply commented because I know for a fact (i.e. I have witnessed it with my own EYES and know them IN REAL LIFE) that they are not out to scam anyone. Whatever they did in the past is the past. Let. It. Go.

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    4. They owe hundred of thousands of dollars, and have made no attempt to pay it back.

      They continue to take money for a company they sold, a workbook they stole, and have never paid the people who did work for them.

      If that is ok with you, then I don't really care what your opinion of them is.

      Stop defending the crooks...

      Delete
    5. Anon 10:08 If you know Kyle as you claim to, then why don't you counsel him to pay the money he owes, and make amends for the wrongs that he has done to people? No one could read the documents here, listen to the recordings, and read the personal stories of what he did to people, and not agree that he has done some really terrible things.

      So help your friend to be a better person instead of wasting your time here trying to convince all of us that he is really a great guy and that we all have it wrong. Until he does make up for his actions he will continue to be nothing but the liar, abuser, and scammer that we all know him to be.

      Delete
    6. Wow, This thing is still going? How sad is that, so if Kyle and Naomi have moved on are you all going to try and mess with their lives by trying to sabotage them in their new direction?

      If they are trying to get people to eat organic food then I find it interesting that they are doing something in line with what we all believe - all natural is better. Yet if they are only in it for the money good luck - I know farmers and they don't make good money. It seems that the more time goes by the more clear it is who actually has done wrong.

      What have you done to their lives? If I were them, even more if I were Naomi, I would have a very hard time being attacked like this. As a woman I can relate better to her and I don't know if Kyle cares but I do know Naomi does. Everything she has ever done has been to help, from Denver Doula to BPI to yes even Brio I see the fruits of her work.

      I have been following this whole thing for years. I was angry and then I GOT OVER IT. I quickly realized that so many of you are angry period, and the Thomas's and Karl, and the Hathaways and Ina May (really?) are not the problem - you are.

      You want money paid back yet you stand in the very way of them succeeding, that does not make any sense. If you were to stand back and let them try then if they succeeded and didn't fix all the issues I could see some frustration, hurt and anger but they have never had a chance.

      From a month into 'Brio' or whatever reborn they were under attack and rather than band together to help them so many of you ran, and listened to some recordings (not all of them because if you did you would hear what was really going on) and then listened to others who obviously didn't get their way. I don't even know what to say, you are all a bunch of hypocrits

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    7. The Thomas's are the problem. They took tens of thousands of dollars in the name of helping pregnant women and babies, and used it on vacations, or lavish parties. They knowingly lied about trademarks, business plans, and financial backing. They have closed accounts to avoid collections. They have sold property that they did not own(the workbook) and then continued to sell it themselves.

      Kyle and Naomi have no interest in helping the birth community. They have proved every step of the way thay they are in this only for themselves. It is only through getting the warning out about them that we can prevent others from being suckered into their SCAMS.

      Or maybe you would just like to buy one of Kyle's illegal parking passes...

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    8. Have you ever met the Thomases? Just curious because that just doesn't sound like them. Anyone who has spent time with them could never believe these outrageous claims. You just sound so angry and it's been so long that you can't even see clearly anymore. I feel so sorry for you. Honestly.

      Delete
    9. Yes I have met them, and like most of the people here, they lied to my face repeatedly. If you haven't had that experience yet, then you probably just haven't figured out what they lied to you about.

      I feel sorry for you that you continue to fall for their lies.

      Delete
    10. You may want to talk in person to some of their former dear friends (people don't keep that title very long). I'm sure the Clingers would have much to tell you.

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    11. Anon did you really read the documents here, and listen to the recordings? Do you deny that that is in fact Kyle's voice going on and on about having millions of dollars to invest in Brio? Did you miss the part about the guy will all the Burger Kings who was going to fund this? Or how about his billionaire mentor that had lawyers ready to walk into court and shut down the Bradley people?

      How about Kyle's attorney, aka Naomi's brother, that told everyone on a podcast that the letter granting the rights to the name to the Hathaway's was fraudulent because it was signed after his death?

      How about the fact that Dr Bradley's daughter have stated that Kyle lied to them.

      How about the Facebook page that Kyle and Naomi claimed was taken down by the Bradley people, but was actually taken down by them.

      I think everyone here would agree that it is you who does not know the real Kyle Thomas, and you clearly haven't read or listened to anything posted here.

      Delete
  24. My experiences with Brio have been very positive and very professional.
    I have read dozens of birth books and the Brio manual is one of the most comprehensive I have seen. I am proud to use it as a central resource for my childbirth classes.

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    1. I'm absolutely positive it is a wonderful resource. Now ask how many people worked on it. Then find out how many of them were promised payment. Then see how many of them were actually paid for their time, passion, and talent.

      Delete
  25. Then you appear to be the one and only person they were professional with. Have you read the court documents?
    Have you listened to the recordings of Kyle?
    Do you care that you are involved with an organization that has to change their bank accounts to prevent them from being seized to pay its debts?
    Do you operate your business that way?
    If not then why would you associate with people who do?

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    1. I have read everything, and I am the same poster above anon - 1:48 - I listened to everything and it was interesting how it sounded as if Kyle really did want to help. Yes I think he was WAY overconfident in their ability to take on the AAHCC, they have years of bullying experience and from what I understand Kyle doesn't.

      What do you think happens when a company gets attacked - do you even know what professionals do? I doubt it you and so many here act like it was about you, I knew and still know that its about the mothers we serve. Yet so much time and energy is put into pulling one family, one couple down. You are all a bunch of angry people, let it go already

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    2. Wow you really didn't listen at all. Kyle wasn't over confident he was committing criminal fraud. He has a long history of this kind of thing, which is why any future endeavor he is involved in will be tainted from the start. Kyle was what was wrong here from the very start, and the pregnant women of this world deserve better.

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    3. So are you saying they are inherently evil and shouldn't be allowed to conduct any business of any kind? And it's your place to stop them? Can't quite figure out your motives and intentions here because all I see is blind hatred

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    4. If you've ever met Kyle, then yes I think you have looked into the eyes of someone evil. I don't mean evil in the sense of the devil, but certainly someone who doesn't care one ounce about anyone but himself. he hurt more people in his Brio scam than most people hurt in their entire lives. That sure seems pretty evil. He hasn't tried to make amends for his actions. He continues to lie to people like you and convince you that he isn't the problem the rest of the world is.

      Kyle should get an honest job, and then I and everyone else here won't care. But as long as he continues his scam yes we will continue to spread the word about what he has done, and continues to do.

      You believe Kyle even though there is mountains of evidence about what he did. You don't believe the Hathaways, the Contards, the Klingers, Dr Bradley's daughters, and I could go on and on, but it is clear that to you evidence doesn't matter. You will continue to support Kyle no matter how many people he hurts, and how many lies he tells. That is what is truly sad.

      I just want Kyle to get a real job, and let Brio go away. It is nothing but a scam, so just drop it and get a real job. Then I won't have to warn people about him.

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    5. You do realize how imbalanced that sounds right? I just can't take anything you say with credibility. No one is pure evil unless you are claiming he is on the ranks with Hitler and Stalin. You just lose credibility with everything more you type.

      I would be very curious what they would have to say about you. Has anyone here actually contacted them to ask for their version?

      Delete
    6. Then we offer you the same warning we offered the Clingers (who ignored it and I believe are regretting it). Do NOT give them any of your money. Period. Enjoy the ride while it lasts. I know full well that they are wonderful people when they want something from you. Things change, rather quickly though. Watch your back, keep your funds to yourself, and just know that we do expect you to be on this blog at some point sharing a different story.

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    7. Naomi plays the victim extremely well. Talk to someone outside the family for a more accurate picture.

      Delete
  26. Jenni who are you in contact with at Brio? Are Kyle and Naomi still involved?

    Although you like the workbook, you should have read enough here to know that its contents are stolen, and Brio sold the rights to it to Karl, so in essence you have been buying stolen goods. Are you still buying copies of it from them, or just copying it?

    Do you really consider a professional business to be one where their official website points to a blog about what crooks they are?

    Wake up and smell the coffee...

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    1. All my direct interactions with them were professional: I paid for a training, I got a training, I paid for a manual, I got a manual. I had not heard a word against Brio prior to the training, and then I'd seen one blog post someplace but still really had not heard much until months later. I asked them for their side of the story, and now I'm sorting through the other side of the story, trying to find the truth of things.

      I initially met Naomi years ago in a moms group, I don't know her particularly well but we've talked a few times over the years and it was through her that I found out about Brio. I have spoken with both of them a couple of times in recent months as I have been working on the certification process (which I think is a valuable process whether or not I remain involved with the company). So yes, Naomi and Kyle are still involved. So far as I can see, they essentially ARE the company at this point. I have looked for other people teaching Brio classes (theoretically there are supposed to be a lot of them?!) but haven't found any, so I don't know what else is going on or where or how big it is. I trained with Brio and have no regrets there. I have not yet decided what direction to go with my own business (in terms of certifying/listing with an organization or not).

      May I ask what specifically is the deal with the workbook? I mean it's a good workbook, it's a convenient resource that has a lot of information all in one place. Can someone explain to me though how the contents are stolen? I think everything in there was information I have seen elsewhere... I mean it's a good compilation, but if the information is out there in multiple places already then how are the contents stolen? (I totally understand if rights were sold to someone and that hasn't been followed, but I'm asking about the actual contents themselves.)

      I'm not trying to defend Brio per se. I'm trying to say that 1--my own personal experiences have been positive and 2--I want specifics and details before I make up my mind about whether to associate, disassociate, or fight with the company in the future.

      Delete
    2. Jenni,

      .First, I know not many come here to look anymore. I stop by periodically b/c I just want Brio to stop trying to get anything else. They are completely dishonest. I know that is a very broad term. I spent a long time as well trying to justify their actions and try to see what was positive with them. It finally came to a point when they lied directly to me. I cannot lying. I've said before what my personal experience has been.

      The workbook...well, the educators who created that workbook (assuming you are using the original 2011 version) were never compensated per their agreement. They were to be paid and receive credit. Many of the educators who created that book feel it should never be available. Also, Karl Klinger is to be the sole owner of ALL BRIO BIRTH IP, that goes for workbooks, teaching materials, training materials, etc.. A version 2 was to come out at some point. The people who worked on that one I cannot say what has happened.

      You ask as well about the business plan you are to create. Look deeper. What Kyle asked of our training was to create an LLC as well, but to set up our family as that and write off our groceries. He was teaching us fraudulent practices. I stopped listening around that point and frankly that was 2 years ago and much more has happened to me personally that that conversation is completely lost to me.

      I really don't get it Jenni. I don't get how someone could still say they are a great company. It is all smoke and mirrors at this point. Yes, they have a great vision and I believe in that. Really, do look at this and think and read it over and over with a questioning mind. When the lawsuit was going on, I had a completely different mindset. Once I started really reading the stuff and listening and comparing it to my experiences with them, I realized I was being sucked into something dark. When that parking pass scam came out, I couldn't even believe he tried to still convince that reporter. I know reporters can twist things, but there was no way that was. Kyle has a completely different perception to what is really going on in the world. See if you can talk with Karl. I don't know if he has a way to connect with you, but you really need to talk to him and his wife.

      Delete
    3. Jenni,
      Who are you working with at Brio? Are Kyle and Naomi even still involved?

      Have you read the court documents?
      Have you listened to the recordings of Kyle?
      Have you seen the reports of Kyle trying to sell parking passes?
      Have you seen the Garnishment documents to seize their accounts?

      If you know that they have stolen content from this community, and refuse to pay their debts, and blame everything bad that has happened to them on anyone but themselves, how can you possibly even think of joining them?

      Delete
    4. Stacy, Thank you for the further details. This is helpful.

      Anon, no I have not read/seen/heard any legal documents or proceedings.

      Until this week I had not heard specifics anywhere, just broad sweeping (mostly anonymous) statements about how Brio was bad. Again, without specifics, and because my own experiences had been positive, I didn't have any reason to change my course. (And I did spend some time with google a year ago and felt that I did not find anything conclusive at that point.)

      Due to the further information now available to me, I have decided to disassociate from Brio. Because my own experiences were not hurtful/illegal/etc I will not be joining in any negativity toward them. I feel conflicted and in some cases not sure what to believe about the rest of this. However I do not feel any conflict about the decision to part ways. I'd like to hope that the many issues involved here can be resolved at some point, for the sake of all involved.

      Delete
    5. Congratulations on your decision.

      I invite you to read and listen to the content that is in the Files section of this blog. There you can find recordings of Kyle's phone calls, and several of the actual court documents detailing Brio/Kyle's activities. I think you would then better understand why people are so mad, and what Brio/Kyle/Naomi were really trying to do.

      Delete
  27. To Anon who knows Kylomi,

    I'm actually a little shocked that you feel they need to be supported and we should still feel sorry for them. I know you didn't say that, but reading what you have written just really says to me that we were the ones that brought them destruction.

    We didn't run away after a month of Brio getting going. If that were true, ummm Brio wouldn't be around today because they would not have had us writing the workbook, designing teacher materials, providing the research, and promoting the heck out of them (web comment galore and conference booths), and getting all our friends to like them on facebook. They are still flying high from that work. Fans are viral based and funny, I have not seen them promoting themselves at any conferences since those regional reps that did have left. Hmmm???? Could that be because the birth community at large knows the scam they are pulling? I feel guilty because we did all these things that made brio just look fabulous while in reality it was a scam to get us to do the work while they lived off the fruit of our labors. They got training money that they never refunded and intellectual property that they had no right to resell. Again, many hung on until April 2011 or so. Heck I stuck it out a bit longer because I believed in their cause. Think of the time line...they started this in October 2010 and settled on a path in December. Many began training around Jan. 2011. We didn't leave after a month. It was when the lies came forward that we started leaving. It was when we found out they were using our money for their own personal gain.

    I find it strange that the facebook page is now going strong and starting the same crap of stealing images and videos again (look in their albums they do not own those images; this is copyright infringement). And now there are two posters here saying how absolutely wonderful the Thomases are and how amazing brio is. Ummm?????

    And yes, sad that I have to check up on the progress of Brio. If you don't realize this fact yet, until they completely shut down Brio which harmed the birthing community because of the stealing (I will never trust another birth worker) and lies I will not let up. They have never admitted publicly what faults they created. I lost big time as well. My thriving business failed that year and is slowly recovery but will not be a strong as it was before. I lost some credibility here b/c I pushed Brio hard here. Then I just gave up fighting to get the business I had back. It is stressful. I wish I had never read their email when they were the hopeful and motivated.

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    1. What if you're wrong about the Thomases being so evil? Honestly. Are you able to consider that or are you too blind from listening to other people's versions and interpretations of what happened? I get that you say you went through all of this yourself but I have asked them about these lavish parties and vacations and getting the other side compared to yours makes this version laughable. Honestly.

      How many of you here have bothered to keep an open mind long enough to learn another perspective? And yes I am also talking to those who "went through it" because from what I can discern, very, very, few of you actually knew the Thomases well enough to claim these things. And those who did there is WAY more to the story than they have ever told you. If all of your angry is rooted in their credibility than you have been played. Big time. Oh the irony!!

      Delete
    2. You realize that you're taking the word from someone who shows characteristics of a sociopath? Most of us did have an open mind, and heart and calendar and even wallet. We were screwed. The point here is to keep people from following in our footsteps. If you're willing to walk that path, well, good luck. Not one person has been able to do that unharmed.

      Delete
    3. Will not go to jail for KyleJune 5, 2013 at 2:33 PM

      Original OP here...

      First, never said they were evil just not honest about the role they played in this fiasco.

      True, I don't personally know them, but did ask them many questions when I started to doubt what was going on. What really gets me here, is this sounds SO much like Naomi's always search for the truth line. I did search out the truth by speaking to Naomi (with Kyle in the background feeding her lines), Kyle, Ellen C., and 3 Regional Reps. I have never spoken to Karl or Ivy, but seeing them leave and knowing that Ivy does want her story posted...gosh that should be on this blog...says a lot to me.

      I know what other educators experienced because I read the emails and facebook exchanges. I read the email responses back from the Thomases to those educators. I kept an open mind for as long as I could. They need to just drop the entire Brio thing (including his mega idea of brio kids, brio family, etc.). Kyle has no business giving business advice and I did see him present this via web cam. What he was all asking us to do was commit federal fraud. When I saw this, I was shocked I got myself into the mess. This was the real beginning of opening my eyes to how messed up Kyle Thomas was. I realized then I better start asking the questions for myself and figure it for ME. What I learned is that Naomi has no clue what her husband is really up to doing. That she even has the wool pulled over her eyes. I tried my hardest to let that little voice in my head to shut up, but things just kept happening (the faceboook lie, the yahoo group going down, the IP stealing, no refunds to those who should get it, etc.). He is no business person. He has ideas but on running an ethically legal company, hmmm??? He has no clue on how to do this.

      Delete
  28. Not Blind or DeafJune 5, 2013 at 11:48 AM

    Hi, Naomi, how are you doing? Surprised you took time out of running your little Facebook empire to come slumming with the people you and Kyle have hurt. You know, if you and Kyle were to simply make reparations and work honestly - in any field - even your former victims would wish you all the best. We might have to maintain boundaries, we might not want to work with you, and we might never consider you friends... but I can say for myself that I would not want to stand in your way or sabotage any efforts you're making if you could only make efforts to make good on the damage you've done. Sticky sweet words won't do it, though. Not when you've swindled people out of tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.

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  29. Are Naomi and Kyle even involved in Brio anymore? Does anyone know? Did they sell the scam to another person? Since Kyle is now claiming to be a farmer, he wouldn't have time for Brio.

    Are they still selling Karl's workbook? I mean they did sell it to him. And just an FYI Karl's listing in CO is now delinquent, so I guess Embrion was every bit as big a scam as Brio.

    What happened to Karl's lawsuit against BrioVent?

    It has been a long time with no new information. Somebody must know something about what is going on currently.

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    1. The lawsuit settled out of court. I signed a public letter of apology and Mr. Clinger was willing to drop the case. Due to the manner my blog was shut down, it's taking more energy than I'm willing to invest to bring it back up; though I did just revive the FB page.

      Delete
    2. Good to hear, although I'm not sure what there was to appologize for. I think Karl has refused to accept his part in this as much as Kyle.

      At least it is over. Hopefully Brio will be too someday.

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  30. I had a year long association with the Thomases. I was cheated, lied to, demeaned and I could go on and on. I have a dozen stories of my own interactions. I have a friend who was hounded and stressed so badly she miscarried her child and two other people intimately involved in the crazy who miscarried as well. Another friend who was attacked physically by Kyle. These people are crazy and dangerous. I have met him in person and watched the con artist in action trying to convince an organization to get in bed with Brio based on complete falsehoods (I was friends with someone in that organization so was able to save them the embarrassment by clue-ing them in before it tarnished them). I do not begrudge them a new start and hopefully a little actual manual labor will do him good, but he has never owned up to, apologized or set up a plan for making amends. Until then, no forgiveness without repentance.

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  31. Alright supporter of Kyle here's your chance. I challenge you to ask Kyle and Naomi for their side of the story. Then compare that against the recordings, court documents, and all the testimonials that appear here, and then tell us if you believe anything that Kyle says. I can guarantee you that Kyle will claim that all of this is a lie, but we have proof on our side. These are not basesless accusations. The proof is right here ready for you to read and listen too.

    Now are YOU willing to open your eyes???

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  32. As one of the ones who was the most deeply hurt by this mess - and yes, Anon defender, I knew "them" more than intimately enough to have an insane amount of data - I find some of the defenses raised here ridiculous. Anon defender, and Jenni as well, I invite you to contact me privately (ellen at wellbegun dot org) and we can trade detailed stories. We can even skype and "talk" real time, if you would like to. Of course, I agree with Not Blind above that at least some of those Anon posts above were written by a Kylomi entity - there were some positive triggers in there.

    Do you know what? In many ways, I have let pretty much everything go. Obviously, my young family is still suffering from the very large amount of money they cost us (when you add up outstanding loans, unreimbursed expenses, etc, the sum is easily in the low six figures), and I definitely have some post traumatic stress issues that I need therapy to resolve - once I can afford it; isn't it neat how that ties together? But I'm not stalking them and trying to sabotage their every move (and in some cases they have outright claimed that that is the case). I just don't have the energy or motivation. That said, I can 100% truthfully state that if Kyle and Naomi want to right their wrongs and make an honest go of it as farmers, birth and family people, ditch diggers, reality show stars... I would wish them the best in their endeavors (from the greatest distance possible). IF THEY WOULD RIGHT THEIR WRONGS. That is the key. One can forgive and still recognize that actions have consequences. Those of us who lost babies know that some things can never be repaired, but the fact is that some things can, and should. If they were to start paying on what they owed - even if it was a few dollars a week - it would at least lend some credibility. For our part, Chris and I are working hard and paying out of money we don't even have on debt that we incurred for Brio, so I don't have a great deal of sympathy for the "farmers don't make much money" argument. Until they make an honest effort - and yes, it could take many, many years, just ask me and Chris, who have been working on it for over two years already - I don't believe they are any better than their scams, and I'm looking for the next lie around the corner. It is not overly angry, hateful, vengeful, or continuous sabotage to expect someone to pick up their mess. I expect that of my small children, and I sure as heck expect it of people who purport to be adults.

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    1. Oh, and furthermore, I am extremely leery of that continuing "Brio Birth" FB page. It is unclear as to what its function and mission is - is Brio Birth now Naomi's personal birth business? Is it still an organization that trains and certifies childbirth educators? Until I see some clarity there, I still think there's a scam on. I'd also LOVE to hear from Jenni - or any other alleged Brio educators - about these workbooks, as the ownership of much of the content is contested at best, and I doubt any more were published after the initial run.

      Part of me really wishes I hadn't been pointed back to this new info - I hadn't thought about much of it in quite a while. I wonder how long it will continue to follow me in one form or another.

      Delete
  33. Apparently they are still selling workbooks. Although you have to email them to buy them.

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  34. Why is it that Karl has enough money to sue a blog to shut them up, but can't seem to sue Kyle to get his Facebook page back, or the workbook that he bought the rights too?

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  35. Probably like everybody else, he decided he'd had enough, and decided to cut his losses and run..... and thus, the scam continues.

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  36. It would appear that Karl has sold briobirth.com. Someone recently renewed it for 5 years, and also made the registration private so we don't know who owns it. It is still pointed here, but for how much longer?

    I hope it isn't Kylomi.

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    1. I am glad to share any information concerning my involvement in this entire ordeal from beginning to present. However, I am really not interested in exhausting any worthwhile resources on a fruitless endeavor. I am frustrated when I reflect on how much time, money, and energy has already been wasted under the guise of doing something good for women and children.

      I renewed the domain registation for five years. After all, it is contractually mine. Adding the privacy information gives me options for what to do with the domain in the future. If anybody has any more productive ideas for what to do with this site, please let me know.

      Delete
    2. Whatever happened with getting back ownership of the Facebook page? Have you done anything else to try to stop them from continuing to do business in your name? For instance Kyle still claims to be working for you.

      Delete
    3. Fed Up, the facebook page continues to lose their following. I have a strong case built against Brio LLC (the Thomases), even though I have not had contact with them for almost all of 2013. If I initiate a fraud claim against the Thomases do we have enough participation to make it a class action lawsuit? Kyle fraudulently presented my personal information (driver's license scan, signature and social security number) to Facebook and PayPal to gain access to both of those accounts. I have documented evidence of both. I also have a contract he has been in blatant violation of in a number of ways. Also, the data I have been able to gather over the last year has been very valuable.
      As for Kyle's linked in profile, Kyle has made so many claim's of so many things that I cannot waste my time pursuing them. Perhaps he just hasn't updated it in that long. I only speculate, so I will stick to the things I know.

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    4. Fair warning for all!
      The following domain will expire on March 6th:
      briobirth.co

      These domains will expire on March 7th:
      briobirth.biz
      briobirth.info
      briobirth.net
      briobirth.org
      briobirth.us

      I would be happy to transfer ownership for whatever administrative costs it takes. I don't want any profit for these domains. I just want out. If you are interested in making a transfer of ownership before these domains expire please email me.

      The domain briobirth.com has already been renewed for 5 years, but I am not going to waste any more money on this. As has always been my intention, I wish you all the very best in your mission to improve childbirth experience through education and awareness.

      Again, if you can think of a better use for the briobirth.com domain please let me know. I would feel better about directing traffic to a proven organization that might assist the organic traffic that ends up here rather than being pulled into the conversation here. I do not doubt anybody's sincerity. I have come to know many of your experiences. However, I feel it may be more productive to make something good from what was learned from all of the experiences shared here and move on. In my opinion, it is the distraction from your united cause (not the money) that is the biggest tragic contribution of the Thomases. I feel that this forum has accomplished its goal to ensure that others would not fall victim to the Thomases poor judgment and bad business practices.
      If you would like to make a suggestion of where I should point the domain briobirth.com, please email me at kclinger5@hotmail.com.

      Delete
  37. Apparently this person has never visited this page. I hope she doesn't really plan on using any of their business training or she just might end up in jail.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yutli9pI6go

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    1. You can find the woman in this video online at http://www.mothersophiaeducation.com/

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    3. That woman is me. I'm not trying to be anonymous. I've been here and said precisely the same thing I said in the video. That MY experiences (with training primarily) were positive and professional, and that I think the manual is good.

      Truthfully, I really detest conflict. I haven't been here in months because of that. I posted the video because I had a positive experience and I didn't hear anyone else saying that side. It made me sad to hear so many bad things when my experience had been positive. I was planning on teaching independently before training with Brio (and had certification not been included in the price I wouldn't have bothered with it, honestly, because I just don't put that much value in certification). I had been working on the certification process (because reading more birth books definitely isn't gonna hurt me), but have now made the decision to disassociate from Brio. (I have taken down the video, by the way).

      Anon 1:20 can you tell me what business training I should beware of? They said to register as an LLC, and to get liability insurance for the business. Then they suggested a few marketing ideas (things like sharing ad-space with a doula or birth photographer). It didn't seem like anything very edgy. Just I'm a school teacher not an MBA, you know?

      Delete
    4. Jenni, I don't know if you will come back to check this page...but what Kyle presented in 2011 as "Business 101" included "tips" on how to count your personal groceries, clothing, vehicle, and kids' private school tuition as "business perks" that would supposedly could be written off by the business as "expenses." Problem was that he never pointed out that you'd still have to claim them as "income" on your personal taxes.

      Delete
  38. All this sounds very much like a "doula" I ran into recently who... interacts with vulnerable and naive women searching to find relevant facts from a “professional” about childbirth, that is, this person inserts themselves into "private" Facebook forums relating to pregnancy related issues and represents themselves as a professional. Who writes that they have 25 assisted births on one page and then states 50 assisted births on another page. Who reports that they are working on their "doula" certification, but certification organizations have never heard of this person (at least in a positive way). Reports receiving a "doula certification", but here’s the kick…from their own business.

    How I ran into the person was that they posted news of a family member's pregnancy without their permission on Facebook and before said person had publicly announced the happy news…which, no great surprise here, has deeply affected our family. This person has admitted, in writing, that it was “mistakenly thought to be public knowledge” and that they are “usually more discrete than that”, and to essentially breaking supposed-professional confidentiality. This person went on to apologize for their “misunderstanding", relates “I was not in wrong in any way in this situation” and hopes that I will find a more :”appropriate place to put my blame and anger”, oops, and then goes on…here’s the best part…threatens to sue me for libel, slander, and defamation, and being mean, and daring to address her, and that I’m not an idiot, and…and…whatever...if it is reported. Let me reiterate that this person, in their role as a "professional doula" wrote on a public Facebook page that someone was pregnant before the person themselves could deliver the news.

    Unfortunately, this “doula” cannot be reported because they are not listed with any professional doula organization, including CAPPA and DONA International. They also list multiple business locations in many states including Denver, Arizona, Hawaii, Twenty-Nine Palms on various websites, so a state agency would not be feasible, or definitely hard to track down. This person maintains multiple (like a whole bunch) Facebook accounts with different information listed on each. They have presented themselves as a professional doula while not being a listed member of any professional organizations, such as CAPPA or DONA, or any other reputable organization.

    Their snide and entitled tone seems to imply that they are a poor picked-on person who's never done anything really wrong in their life, like, it's the other guy's fault, right? Who writes, yeah, I used poor judgment, but I'll sue you if you tell anyone what I just wrote, and then proceeds to say and, this is a good one…"I’m so sorry for your pain…Hopefully this spoil of the way you found out does not taint the joy that is to come.” Yikes…really?

    I'm not making any accusations nor commenting on the character, reputation, or experience of this person (don’t want to get sued for stating facts)...but, would just like to put this out there. Sorry about the ramble...I'm just a regular person, who just happened to notice the pregnancy "spoil" (this person's words, not mine) on my Facebook news reel and tried to get to the bottom of it, only to receive more insult and harm from this oh, so “charming” and “church-quoting ” “doula”...just saying...

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  39. Sounds like Naomi.

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  40. http://00goddess.net/2013/06/my-farmer-goose-experience/

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  41. Are the Thomas' involved in this? It sure sounds like them.

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  42. If you Google Kyle Thomas and Farmer Goose, it sure looks that way. But when you go to click on the website its been suspended. The Facebook page is still up though. If they are involved in this, which I'm pretty sure they are, just goes to show people don't change. They are still out there lying and scamming people. I feel sorry for anyone involved in the disintegration of this business.

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  43. I went and looked at the farmer goose complaint. Found this interesting comment and copied in case it does get deleted.

    "I’ll saw something about this farmer goose thing and finally sat down to figure it out. So, here ya go :) David Carroll listed as the owner of Farmer Goose, LLC in AZ. You can do a business search and find it. His wife is listed as manager in the docs section on AZ business, too. David Carroll is brother to Naomi Thomas who is married to Kyle Thomas.

    What does this really all mean? Well, it means that they (the Thomases and family) are at some new scheme again, and sadly more families are being harmed by their devious ways.

    So, I did some more poking around and found David Carroll’s linked in profile. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw8WqkfdhFQwZGZ6alZ2YVB5d00/edit?usp=sharing

    Then if you scroll down, you’ll find his experiences listing none other than Wayne Carroll. Wayne is brother as well to Naomi and defended them in their lawsuit against the AAHCC. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw8WqkfdhFQwSzNiY3ZGd3drV0E/edit?usp=sharing As interesting that is, you can scroll down and find Christine (David’s wife) listed in a project.

    Oh but wait…it gets better! Google Farmer Goose and Kyle Thomas…go ahead I’ll wait…ah, heck here’s the screen shot https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw8WqkfdhFQwTmlIUmNVR054NTA/edit?usp=sharing So, apparently at some point in 2013 Kyle writes a post but as many of us know at this point about him, he doesn’t hide himself very well, and his user name is listed.

    Ah, but no it gets better my friend! https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw8WqkfdhFQwVFVFZXl1ZnZqUVk/edit?usp=sharing This entry listing is from when the contest was going on. Now only am speculating here, but why would some need another user to add a comment from them? They doesn’t make sense to me.

    Anyway, yes I hate to say, but Farmer Goose is another scheme created by Kyle Thomas. While I don’t want to keep someone away from earning money for their family, I also don’t want others to be harmed by the scams he keeps trying. He tried to run Brio Systems which turned into Brio Balance which then turned in Bradley Reborn which couldn’t legally exist so he changed the name to Brio Birth and scammed birth workers there and then had another friend help create a shell company Embrion which could keep Brio Birth alfloat while also taking all the IP work and trying to make money for himself. He is now at again duping his family into being farmers. He left Colorado and then went to Utah. It is being speculated he left Utah to run from something and ended up in Arizona. It is a pattern of behavior."

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  44. In case there were still any doubt. http://www.linkedin.com/in/kylethomas. He no longer claims to work for Karl, but is still working for Brio Birth.

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  45. Why do I find it hard to believe that anything Kyle does is for charity? Beware!!!! http://getadora.com/

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