Monday, October 8, 2012

Karma Will Take Care of It...

... but how?

Those who were scammed by Brio seem to take one of two stances.  The first group is distancing themselves and remaining silent.  They justify their stance with comments such as "Karma will take care of it."  "What goes around, comes around."  "I don't want to put negative energy into the birth world."  "They'll ruin themselves in the end."  The second group is actively trying to warn others and to redress what wrongs they can.  They don't want others to get hurt the way they were - or worse. They want the community to be able to heal and move forward.  They are often criticized, sometimes very harshly, by others for their actions.  My question to those who would rather remain silent is, how can you know when you might have been the one person able to warn the next victim?  How can you know that your action is not what would finally be the tipping point for stopping the scam once and for all?

A former Brio educator shares:

After WWII, some German students volunteered to help rebuild a cathedral in England that had been heavily damaged by Luftwaffe bombings.  As they worked, one of their tasks was to rebuild the statue of Jesus that had stood outside the church.  Jesus' hands were outstretched, and the statue had an inscription that read, "Come Unto Me."  They were able to piece together almost all of the statue, but they could not find Jesus' hands.  Finally, they reached a decision that has taught many a valuable lesson: they left the reassembled statue without hands, and put a new inscription on the statue: "I Have No Hands But Yours."

For those of you who believe that karma will take care of it, how do you know that karma is not trying to use YOUR hands?


37 comments:

  1. I love this story. As a fellow Christian it really rings true with me. But as you called out to us to "be his hands" I can't help but thinking that Jesus never asked anyone to destroy something. His message was always about love and looking for the best and being compassionate and turning the other cheek and everything. While I never became certified with them I didn't because I chose not to, not because of anything they did to me. I realize that all of my angst with them has been based on other people's experiences and words. I just don't think I can align with my Christian beliefs the idea of being angry with someone because someone else told me to be. They are actually doing good things now, if you look at them objectively. Just like people, organizations can change. Just not so sure this is something I can participate in any more and hold my head up high in calling myself a follower of Jesus. And I know you'll say that I need to SPEAK UP so other people don't get duped but I don't think there has been anyone in a long time claiming that they have been "scammed" by Brio.

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    1. Mark 11:15
      "On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple courts and began driving out those who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves"

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  2. Anonymous..I can completely agree with you not being angry with Brio...but I have to ask you...what good are they doing now? I ask seriously...I've asked this question of others who post here saying Brio is doing "good," and so far no one has been able to specify what they have done.

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  3. I do not see Brio doing anything "good" other than being effective with building a giant Facebook presence. Even there, they steal. They download others' content, sometimes watermark it with their logo, and repost it as their own.

    If you call yourself a Christian - or even just a moral person - how can you reconcile the fact that Brio is not even attempting to make good on their past mistakes? Ok, they're putting out a bunch of piecemeal content (disregard the fact that little if any of it is their own), and maybe some people are seeing some information that they may not have otherwise (or they may have), but how is any of that "good" if they are not paying on past debts? If they are not crediting the people whose intellectual property they stole (yes, stole)? If they are not refunding people who initially bought in and funded them, but did not get what they paid for, because it got used as Kylomi's piggy bank? If they are not paying on at least their verbal contracts for the incredible amounts of work done - a serious bargain for them, but I'm sure their former "employees" would at least think something is better than nothing? If they are not paying on the loan for which they are legally in default? If they are not paying on the judgment they owe the AAHCC, and are in fact actively playing financial shell games in order to hide any money they do bring in? Are these the actions of a good and ethical company, or are these the actions of scam artists?

    I'm also not sure I buy the whole "but people can change" argument. Especially not that fast. I might buy them trying to do actual good if they prove it by starting to actually make right the numerous wrongs they've done, and they won't even admit to the extreme pain they've caused in the birth community. They blame anybody and everybody else, and plow forward with their next big "ooh ah" rollout, their next big "flash sale" or giveaway to create "buzz." As far as I'm concerned, their broken trail should stick to them until they turn around and start fixing it.

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    1. I'm guessing you would be one of those people they owe money to? It sounds like you have some very personal issues with Kyle and Naomi and that this is much more than just about business. How do you know they are not trying to or planning to make good on their debts? Do you really stalk them THAT much? And how do you expect them to be able to be effective in paying them off when you keep trying to tear them down? Your logic leaves me a little baffled. Go ahead and badmouth someone and then be angry when they can't be effective in earning money to right the mistakes they've made. Again why I think its more about a personal issue rather than something logical.

      The "good" that they are doing is pretty obvious - they are teaching classes. Just because all you can see is the Facebook page does not mean that there is not more going on. You admit that they are reaching people who would not otherwise be reached. If they can help even one birth to be better than that is good. With all this adamant anger it makes me think that there is a whole lot more to this story and it's not so cut and dry like you would want everyone to believe.

      Like you said if you call yourself Christian or even just a moral person, this just doesn't seem right attacking people like this. And then to call this a "safe place" by moderating out anyone who may disagree with you. Seems so cowardly to me. I mean, have you even tried to call them up and reason with them? Send them an email seriously looking for a resolution? I'm guessing not. It seems that you are much more interested in pointing fingers rather than find a real solution.

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    2. It does seem like anonymous 10:32 is someone who is owed money...how does that make this person's comments somehow invalid?

      How do the people who are owed money know that there is no good faith effort to pay them the money? Well they can't know for certain, but it is pretty telling that most of the people who are owed money were never given any sort of written IOU specifying how much money was owed. Kylomi actually managed to drag out the process of writing contracts for the Regional Reps for 3 months--most likely in an effort to AVOID having anything official in writing. There are also some more recent developments that support the idea that they have no intention of making payments, but for various reasons, I can't share what those developments are.

      They are teaching classes and that is the good they are doing? Oh my...don't make me laugh so hard!

      First of all...what proof do you have that they are actually teaching? Again, I ask, give names of educators they have trained recently--that shouldn't be private info, the educators should want to advertise their names and new affiliation with Brio far and wide, right?

      As for regular childbirth classes (or even doula services), as far as I can see, Naomi is no longer maintaining a website to advertise such services. She used to have one. Why is it no longer coming up in a Google search? Why doesn't she have the link to it on her Denver Doula FB page? Why does her "doula match" profile still say she is in Denver when she isn't? http://doulamatch.net/profile/2021/naomi-thomas Perhaps because she ISN'T teaching childbirth classes or taking on doula clients anymore? Even if they are teaching...at what volume? Is it enough to counter-balance the number of couples who AREN'T being helped because of educators who dropped out of doing birth work after being burned by Brio? I know at least 5 educators who dropped out...I'm sure there are more scattered around the country.

      What evidence do you have that the moderator of this site is "moderating out anyone who may disagree with you?" I mean really...if that statement were true--YOUR posts would be moderated out. A bit of a logic fail there.

      As for those folks who were burned by Brio/Kylomi calling up to reason with them or sending e-mails looking for resolution...how many are those folks required to send? Because they did a LOT of that in the first half of 2011. Are they required to make contact on a quarterly basis going forward? "Hey, just checking to see if you've turned over a new leaf. I'm wondering if you'd be willing to give me an IOU with a payment plan for the money you owe me?" Would that make you happy? But how ridiculous is it? Don't you think that if Kylomi *really* have turned a new leaf, it would be up to them to reach out to those that they have wronged?

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    3. Nice try, Anonymous 4:38... Your deflection and attempt to turn the tables was highly ineffective. You failed to answer any if the very valid questions raised. Are you trying to claim that they actually are trying to make good on their debts? Proof, please. And if, as you speculate, I am one of those people they owe money to, I would have very good reason to know whether they are trying to pay what they owe - no stalking necessary. Your loaded language about "personal issues" and "stalking" is entirely transparent. You also contradict yourself, talking about all the "good" they are doing and how they are thing classes - again, proof please? - and then turn around and talk about how we meanies that ate treating then down are making it so they can't be effective in paying their debts... So which is it? Are they doing "good," in which case they ought to be paying on debts, or are they ineffective, in which case not that much good is being done? You can't have it both ways.

      I'm guessing the moderating comment was directed at the blog author - I'm not moderating anybody out, more's the pity. I know not all Brio defender comments are moderated out, but I kind of wish they were.

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    4. I know for a fact that they aren't trying to make good on any of their debts. They plan on buying a house with the first large amount of money that comes to them, whether that be through some miraculous influx of trainings or through some other means. You do not buy yourself a house first, when you owe hundreds of thousands of dollars to others. That is not making an effort, that is not honest, that is not respectable. They take what is not theirs on a regular basis, and unless they owe walmart, pizza hut, subway... a substantial amount of debt, they are not using what they have stolen to pay anyone back. Naomi can't wait to buy a nice new car, she has said it a dozen times that she is vain in that way and gets a lot of pleasure out of owning new and expensive cars.

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  4. "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men (or women) to do nothing." Author unknown.

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  5. Does anyone know how to get in touch with the person who is running this blog? With Brio Vent there was a "Briovent@yahoo.com" e-mail address or some such...is there a "birthscam@yahoo.com" e-mail?

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    1. It's in the previous post - birthscamreport@gmail.com. Maybe it should be posted somewhere with a permalink, or in a footer or some other obvious place on the blog.

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  6. I'll admit it. I feel I have tried and tried and am now burnt out. I am a bit miffed at the lack others in the beginning to have others put out their story so it could be seen by more. In the beginning of BB or BR, we all were out on the internet espousing to their wonderfulness and how happy we were. Those things are still there and little posts are made about the damage they caused. Anon 11:20, you really make some great points. Anon 4:38 reminds so much of Naomi playing both sides of how great they are and the victim at the same time. It just doesn't add up correctly.

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  7. I find it funny how ignorant of Jesus some people can be. Even he used force against the money changers. These are modern money changers, so doing everything necessary to stop them is exactly what Jesus would do.

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    1. A good friend also pointed out to me once that Jesus referred to the Pharisees as "white washed tombs"--which was an insult FAR worse than the term "jerk" that she had just aptly applied to someone who had treated me shoddily. I had gasped a bit and responded to her use of "jerk" by saying that "Christians shouldn't say things like that!"

      Christians SHOULD say "things like that"...when they are true.

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  8. I'll admit to being scammed and know they will never pay. What they do is offensive & morally repugnant, but frankly I have better things to do with my time than even keep them in mind. Stupid is as stupid does - if people are not taking the time to research who they are giving their money too, they will be the ones to lose out. Sympathies to all who were the first believers & victims as it was not possible for them to have a clue about who they were getting involved with.

    I would suggest a 'what to do if you've been scammed' post here, to direct folks to complain to the BBB, payment processor, etc.

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    1. scammed by brio birthNovember 9, 2012 at 9:22 AM

      I like that idea! I have feeling in about 4 months the newest educators will need someplace to point to for help in this process.

      Delete
  9. The leaves are fallingNovember 8, 2012 at 7:08 PM

    So...are you all enjoying Brio's new fall motif header on their Facebook Fan page? Lovely, huh? Who does their artwork?

    Very interesting that they claim to be the "world's fastest growing childbirth company." Are they just basing that growth claim on Facebook fans? Because they certainly don't seem to be adding a huge number of new educators.

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    1. scammed by brio birthNovember 9, 2012 at 9:36 AM

      What they fail to point out is we educators who started with them gave the push to help them begin their growth. Once positive vibes were posted every where it became easier and easier to convince people to come on with them. They just needed a few contacts to expand and a fake list of educators to keep people thinking they are viable. I know there are people out there teaching brio and thinking it is a great, but I think those teachers were not involved in the discussions with people working close to the Thomases. What really gets my goat too is they still are listing educators in my area that ARE NOT BRIO!!! How freaking hard is it to update that list? Also, they had a sample of their wonderful workbook which I did happen to look at and guess what? It is the version 1 workbook! So, hey they are still saying they are great b/c of the hard work that those educators put into writing the workbook. The articles they put up are from other people and not the thomases. They are not creating their own material; just stealing and using it. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the brewer diet section to be removed? The table of contents still showed it being there in the sample. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8vg6TiuFc3Gd1J0VWN1dTJUWEk/edit?pli=1

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    2. Also scammed by BrioNovember 9, 2012 at 7:29 PM

      "Scammed by brio," was this sample something they showed recently as a "new" workbook? Because it is the workbook from 2011 exactly...I don't see any changes. I'm surprised Nicci W. hasn't issued a "cease & desist" for using her photos...she made a big deal on her way out about how they'd never gotten proper permission from her to use the photos, so I'd think that she could/would.

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    3. scammed by brio birthNovember 9, 2012 at 10:16 PM

      It wasn't "new" but they slapped that link on their facebook page a week or so ago. I too thought some c/d went down about some pictures and the brewer diet section. I just point it out b/c they keep yapping on how great their system had that major brew-haha over version 2 w/ the cover contest and all. And still over a year later, the same workbook is being used. So, where's the BIG AMAZING update? Not there! Where's the version 2 workbook that is supposed just by awesome as well. Where's the Discovery Channel? Where's this amazing new system that was to be launched that was to be launched on July 11, 2011 (according to his google+). What about the launch that was to happen on Nov 11, 2011 (11/11/11)? Or what about all those things that were promised in the March 17th announcement?

      And to Kyle if you are reading, no worries on deleting those announcements so that you cannot claim you never made those statements. I screened shot them. You're very welcomed!

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  10. I have a friend who has been going through Brio training this weekend. We have talked about this scam stuff, so she knows. I sure hope she won't get burned!

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    1. I assume this is a virtual training? Please do ask her about how it goes...how many other trainees are involved, who did the training, what she thought of it, and all that jazz.

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    2. I'm having a discussion with someone who says there are 6 educator trainees in her virtual training.

      I just don't understand how someone could look at their website and not think "something weird is going on here. This website is a mess."

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  11. scammed by brio birthNovember 11, 2012 at 6:21 PM

    check this out! not posted by brio birth but see karma is not kicking them in the ass. people actually believe they are doing great things. https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwchypGzH4vsQUNoS0lXNEs0TUU this is a screen shot taken today.

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    1. Did you post and say anything? I'd bet many of the former Brio folks would be willing to talk.

      Here is an interesting document: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B14P0m20fCnwV0RKWlhXMVFac2s

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  12. I did ask her to tell me what she thinks of it as time goes on. She said she was excited about the materials and that she was learning a lot. It was virtual and haven't asked her how many were involved. I just don't want her sucked in like so many others have. :/

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    1. I wish it weren't so easy to convince people that they have great materials and have done a lot of hard work. What materials is she liking? If it is things like cards/games and workbook then she should know that the previous educators designed those things.

      Notice too how the price for EVERYTHING drops to a low low low price of $X. That is a BIG BIG sign that something is wrong. It's like when I worked in property management. When we saw apartment communities giving a month's free rent w/ not security deposit, you knew it was a sign that place was having major financial troubles.

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  13. Has anyone else noticed they are just recycling blog posts from months ago?
    Shaking head.....

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  14. Embrion Group Inc has had its incorporation revoked. They are no longer a legal corporation in Nevada.

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    1. Search for the fee amount to reinstate too. $1,450. Seriiously can they not pay that with fees they have brought in through trainings? Makes sense now they keep dropping prices. Virtual class is goling for $149. If teachers renewed why weren't those business fees paid? They shoulda had they money then right? What about deposits they received for the flash sale on trainings this just doesn't add up at all. Those that have taken training better wake up fast!

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    2. So, if Embrion Group is revoked in NV how does that affect Brio Birth's status in CO? Would they then go in default since the parent company cannot do business legally in the stat of NV?

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    3. I heard that Karl and Embrion actually stopped working with Brio months ago. Even he realized it was a scam. I don't know why he continues to allow them to use his company name and website since they actually gave the site to him.

      Remember Embrion was just a dodge to try to get out of paying the judgment they have against them. Anything to keep the scam going.

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    4. No, Karl is still quite involved. His name is on a current fundraising scam they have going on Indiegogo (sp?).

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    5. I think we've already addressed this somewhere else, but they put Karl's name on that indiegogo thing without his permission, and we gave nothing to them for that.

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  15. Where did you see the notice of revocation?

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  16. http://nvsos.gov/sosentitysearch/CorpDetails.aspx?lx8nvq=4y4F0SBLNMsWgB%2F0kAUTag%3D%3D

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  17. Here is the link to their new campaign/scam - http://www.indiegogo.com/BirthLive

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