Wednesday, May 16, 2012

Facebook - Birth Professionals International and Other Pages

This was posted recently by one of the admins on the Birth Professionals International group on Facebook.  Many birth professionals, myself included, have not joined this group because Naomi was an admin.  Others, upon finding out Naomi was an admin, left the group.

"This recently came to my attention: Pregnant women and those who serve them, BEWARE! Kyle Thomas and the very naive Naomi Thomas who head up Brio Birth and Birth Professionals International are at this moment pitching another money-making idea during an admin phone conference that I am choosing not to be a part of. [redacted names of tagged friends] have you seen this. Also, check the court records for multiple assault charges... Yikes!"

A link to the 9 News story on the parking pass scam was included.   Further comments revealed more interesting information:

[Comments originally posted here deleted because they came from a private thread addressing the same topic, not the BPI group. Clarification and the additional comments below were sent by a reader.  Sorry for the confusion.]


"I love this group, but it was a huge concern of mine that Brio and its founders are members of this group. I decided to give it a try, knowing I could always leave if I didn't like it. So far so good. But yeah, if there are thoughts about charging to be a member of this group, I'd start my own."

"Yeah there are only two mods left (three counting Kyle) so [redacted name] shouldn't be part of it"

"What's this about having to pay to belong to this group?"

"From what I gather, the pitch is that BPI turns into a blog and then makes money by having members pay to run ads. I wonder where the money is anticipated to go..."

"Wow :( I don't even know what to say. So is it all a big scam?"

"Ivy Clinger It was never meant to be a scam! The legislator whonwas supposed to sign off on the passes didn't show up to the scheduled meeting. Brio arranged for the interviews, and they spun the story completely wrong. It was a huge disappointment, and the news story is incorrect."


Not surprisingly, the thread was deleted quickly - but not before parts of it were copied and distributed by concerned group members..

In the interest of further caution, here is a list of Facebook pages run by Naomi:


https://www.facebook.com/InaMayGaskin
https://www.facebook.com/fansofhencigoer
https://www.facebook.com/yourdenverdoula
https://www.facebook.com/denverdoula.TM
https://www.facebook.com/briobirth
https://www.facebook.com/groups/BirthPros/
https://www.facebook.com/suzanne.arms

Any content posted on or shared with these pages is going straight to Naomi, and may wind up being used for Brio Birth's profit.  At this time, it is unknown whether Ina May Gaskin is aware of or approves of "her" page.  It is known that Naomi has relationships with Henci Goer and Suzanne Arms.  If anyone knows of any pages run by Naomi that I have not mentioned, please comment or e-mail with that information.

53 comments:

  1. I was actually denied membership on the BPI page when it first started...of course it first started right after the whole blow up at Brio Birth last fall, and I was very much "persona non grata."

    I'm not at all surprised that Kyle wants to use BPI as a money maker--I assumed that was the goal all along.

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  2. I assumed "TM" referred to the trademark on the new group. Is that correct?

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    Replies
    1. That is my guess. They are apparently also trying to TM Brio - see the footer on their website.

      Delete
    2. They have never filed a trademark for it, they are just claiming it. Anyone can put TM next to something and claim it is trademarked. I believe their workbook claims that they have filed for an R in a circle, but they haven't.

      Delete
  3. I was in the group before the BPI change. I got fed up one time and posted something on my page which tagged them. Guess what? I was removed for the group not b/c I posted there but on my own page which was tagged. Hows that work??? Sad that there are 2,400 people on that group and some of them are STILL liking Brio's fan page. Come on!!!! Unlike them already!!! Kylomi do pay attention to those numbers.

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  4. From their list today:
    Around 24 hours ago, I was added as an admin on this group. I originally joined this group simply to help other professionals, when it was under another name. I was very leery of joining as "Birth Professionals International" because I want it understood that anything I say here or might say here does NOT construe copyright to BPI, Brio or any other group or organization. My words are mine and remain mine unless given other permission. I feel the same way about being added as an admin without permission, and while I was willing to give it a benefit of the doubt, several comments have been made that make me assume that if it was not originally knowingly done, it has since been recognized and not corrected, nor was I contacted. That said, I did a lot of research on Brio and it's business methods after several long calls with Naomi, and then Kyle, last year and I have NO wish to do business with Brio or Kyle Thomas. At this time, I am removing myself both as admin and from this list. I realize that there is some sort of background desire to make money off what was originally a free Facebook group, by incorporating it, but I don't want that professional association with Brio or it's enterprises because of their unethical business practices. I won't have my name used to forward them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Who posted this? Was there a name/signature to it?

      Delete
  5. If they were an admin, then they should have just deleted the group and done us all a favor.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Below is Naomi's response to the drama on FB. She always sounds so noble and descent, but why oh why isn't she like that in real life? Why doesn't she stop her HUSBAND who is at the heart of all of this drama, negativity and scheming?

    "Naomi Thomas
    I just logged in here to check on things and I cannot even begin to express how sad I am by the tone and direction that things have gone in here. Nirvana Harley Jennette started this group and I resonated with the direction and desire for professionalism among those who work with women during the childbearing year. I have spend countless hours networking here on Facebook and decided to use my efforts and resources towards building something of value that would actually grow and become wonderful.

    I have donated hundreds of hours to this group alone, carefully adding people and caring for the posts, the tone, the chemistry - all while holding the vision, with Harley as well, that birth professionals could actually work together. That we could actually find a way to not tear at each other and destroy ourselves from within. Recently the organization that my husband and I started was covered by the news for a program that we were seeking to get some awareness and support on, but the news wanted something much juicier and twisted things around and just like that all of the sudden we are out "to scam people." You can believe me or not, and you can actually ask me for a balance in perspective or not. I am not going to try to convince anyone of that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Naomi Protesteth too MuchMay 22, 2012 at 11:39 AM

      Recently [Brio] was covered by the news for a program that we were seeking to get some awareness and support on, but the news wanted something much juicier and twisted things around and just like that all of the sudden we are out "to scam people."

      * "my husband and I started"?!?!?! As if they did it all by themselves. Sheesh.
      * "the news wanted something much juicier and twisted..." Ummm...no Naomi...before running a story most journalists will do at least SOME fact checking...and when they did, they found that your proposed plan--which you were advertising on your website--hadn't obtained proper clearances. TWO news stations independently reached this conclusion, and of course with the Mother's Day tie in they were just as eager to run with the story as Brio was to start sales of the passes. The difference between Brio and the news stations is that Brio was already offering for sale a product that did not have proper clearances (no "pre-sale, this is coming soon!," it was available for sale, and I suspect it was only removed from the Brio website AFTER the news reports came out)--and this is dishonest. The reporters on the other hand...well they might be guilty of not going back to Kyle to get a response to the DMV...but that is Kyle's own fault if that is true. I'm not sure it is true though, the Channel 9 reporter did give some push back indicating that the DMV rep told him that the passes weren't valid. Why didn't Kyle name the person he'd been communicating with in the DMV at that time so that the reporter could verify that?

      Bottom line, he should not have gone to the media until his product was ready for sale! Moving before the foundation is fully in place caught him yet again.

      * "all of the sudden we are out "'to scam people.'" Yeah, because Kylomi haven't already been scamming people by offering for sale products that are no where near completion.

      Delete
  7. cont...

    "To be clear, Brio Birth has not used one piece of information or anything of resource from this group. It is "sponsored" by Brio Birth because I donate my time and my resources to this group as a representative of Brio Birth. But I have taken that role VERY cautiously. I have not posted one thing promoting Brio Birth on this group. Not one. Ironically enough, I didn't want anyone being able to turn around and say this group was done with any self-serving purpose.

    So what I see here is several months of intense care and passion for something better being destroyed all because we cannot seem to be professional with each other. One news story (which was even removed from one station's site due to inaccuracies) and we are so eager to rip each other to shreds. Its no wonder the medical community doesn't take any of us seriously and we can't have any real effect on very real and very important issues like the cesarean rate, the infant mortality rate or the maternal mortality rate... They keep going up despite all our efforts.

    Have you ever stopped to think about it like that? We are so busy tearing at each other. Imagine all of this powerful and passionate energy put towards working TOGETHER to get something done. If its not something really juicy like "oh did you hear how the Thomases are trying blah blah blah" then its "oh that person over there doesn't do birth like I think they should" or "that person doesn't speak strongly enough about circumcision" or "she's not enough of a breastfeeding supporter because she weans at 24 months" or whatever such nonsense. And if its not about us today it will be about someone else tomorrow. And I hope its not you because its a whole other world being on this side of it. Heaven help me if I'm ever the one passing on half-truths in the future.

    There has been a small group of people that have swore to "run us out of business" and have posted half truths and full lies. I have not chosen to respond or acknowledge this group as they are clearly not seeking for truth but seeking to destroy. There is nothing good coming out of it. I have no desire to talk bad about them, despite how much they have attacked everything from my business, my reputation, my family, my husband, my pregnancy, my parenting, my birth experience, and on and on and on. It is not a noble mission for them, it is personal and they cannot handle things in an appropriate manner. And it is just further evidence that the birth community has a very dark and ugly side that we glorify for some reason. We enable and make popular those who can "gossip the best" or whip out the best "weapons grade hate" on the internet. Where is the GOOD in that? Where is the productivity? You can believe it and give it your time and attention if you want, but where does that leave you?

    What it comes down to is that we need to wake up and realize that we are all on the same side -- and we need to stop bickering over things that are really very small in comparison. And most especially we need to be the ones to stop gossip and backbiting in its tracks if we are EVER going to make a difference. Be the one to not spread something on and be the one to represent the rest of us in a positive light when you're out there working within the public and/or the medical community."

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    Replies
    1. I don't believe for a moment that the news story was pulled. Both the stories are still accessible, and I have not seen any sort of published retraction. Not that I follow those news stations, but if there were any sort of official retraction Brio would be screaming it from the mountaintops, and Naomi would be pushing to make it viral on her many FB groups. More of the same Brio philosophy. Tell a lie that's big enough, and people will believe it, because who would be bold enough to say it if it weren't true?

      Delete
    2. It is Naomi and her scamming husband that is tearing the childbirth community apart. If you want to help pregnant women, then shut down Brio, so that those who truly wish to help the community can stop wasting their time trying to warn people about your scams. Claiming that Naomi, Kyle, and Brio have done nothing wrong totally ignores all the evidence, including recordings of Kyle's threats and behavior, transcrips of hearings, and a settlement agreement that clearly they had no intention of abiding by, and don't forget the hundreds of people who have come forward to say how they fell for the scam.

      It's time to put an end to Brio so the birth community can heal and focus on fixing what is wrong with birth in the country.

      Delete
    3. Naomi Protesteth to MuchMay 22, 2012 at 11:22 AM

      Anonymous 8:23, the video was removed from the Channel 4 website, though it is available on other websites who apparently saved their own copy before Channel 4 pulled it off their site. However, you are right that no "retraction" has been printed...so what exactly were the "inaccuracies" in it? I suspect it is more of an issue that Channel 4 bowed to pressure from Brio, while Channel 9 (who presented the same information as Channel 4 and a bit more detail even) has not bowed to the same pressure.

      Delete
    4. Naomi Protesteth too MuchMay 22, 2012 at 11:49 AM

      I didn't want anyone being able to turn around and say this group was done with any self-serving purpose.

      No self serving purposes, huh? Then why have several people who were vocal critics of Brio denied membership in the group? What non-self-serving purpose could there be for those denials?

      "she's not enough of a breastfeeding supporter because she weans at 24 months"

      Way to set up a straw man! I'll admit that I've seen the circumcision arguments...but really, I've never seen anyone criticize someone else for "only" nursing for 24 months. Wow.

      Heaven help me if I'm ever the one passing on half-truths in the future.

      Okay, so I guess half truths she spread in the past don't count? Because she was quite willing to fan the flames of rumors about the AAHCC when she knew that SHE was guilty of what she was letting people think the AAHCC did (shut down the Brio internal educators Facebook group).

      Delete
    5. The story is still on Denver Channel 4. http://denver.cbslocal.com/video/7225620-man-accused-of-selling-bogus-parking-passes-for-pregnant-women/

      Delete
    6. Naomi Protesteth too MuchMay 22, 2012 at 9:08 PM

      Oh, wow. Glad to hear it is still on Channel 4! I had tried searching for it, and couldn't find it.

      I wonder what Naomi is using as her basis for saying it was removed? Did she do the same search that I did and couldn't find it, so she assumed it was removed?

      Delete
  8. Another quote from Naomi:

    "There is no charge for this group - it is a free forum. Facebook is awesome that way. I have no asked for nor have any plans to ask for one dime for my efforts and time put in here. Nothing will be used from this group for anything for my purposes with Denver Doula, Brio Birth or anything else. If, somewhere down the line, I'm putting together something for BPI and see something on here that is helpful, I would contact the author for permission and likely further collaboration. This has been my MO and anyone accusing me of anything otherwise has no basis. I've been very intentional about my efforts here."

    Interesting that she doesn't mention the plagiarism that was discussed on Brio Vent (and I believe part of the BBB complaint).

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    Replies
    1. Oh, Doctor.

      My first reaction: too long - did not read. Really, if you have to be that verbose defending one or two questions, there's something off there.

      My second reaction: ok, read it, and I call BS. And notice that she didn't actually deny the intent to make money off of BPI. So what if there's no charge for the actual FB group? They will obviously use it to drive web traffic, and maybe to try to impress the investors that they probably still haven't gotten after bragging about millions over a year ago.

      Fact: the parking passes were being offered for sale, including as part of a class, on their website. Rather than denying or clarifying this on the video, Kyle said that he would take money, but would not send them out until they were legal, which they will not be for a good while, if ever. Most people would call that... a scam. So yes, Naomi, people think you're out to scam people.

      Naomi is also playing the victim again! People are attacking her birth? Yes, she was irresponsible, and used her birth to try to make a political statement., people are attacking her parenting? Well, she claims to have "donated hundreds of hours" to BPI. She admins about 7 other FB pages that we know of, and who knows if there are more that we don't? Some people suspect that she also runs at least one fake identity on FB as well. All this in addition to the "organization" she says she started with her husband - startups require a huge amount of work. So when exactly does she parent? I read somewhere that she homeschools her son - when does that happen? Along with two more children under two? Something is not adding up, so yes, people might wonder about the quantity and quality of her parenting.

      To be clear, Naomi: YOU make it personal. YOU attract drama. You are trying to turn it back on everyone with legitimate concerns that have still not been addressed, attacking others and playing the victim all at once. What is more believable, that so many others are terrible and unprofessional while you are the holy victim, or... ???????

      Delete
    2. I have a friend, in a different state, who purchased a parking pass. She has sent her receipt to everyone she could think of and is still waiting for Brio to refund her. Never going to get it.

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    3. I would love it if your friend would e-mail me about her experience. I am at birthscamreport@gmail.com. She may also like to e-mail Brio Fraud, a resource collecting evidence of Brio's commercial and financial activities, especially refund issues, at briofraud@gmail.com. She can also complain to the Better Business Bureau of Denver, and the reporters who ran the parking pass story might be extremely interested to hear that passes have actually been sold: brandon.rittiman@9news.com, http://denver.cbslocal.com/personality/shaun-boyd/ There is a form to send a message at the bottom of the page.

      Delete
    4. She already sent it to both news stations, and complained to the BBBoD, but she lives in Hawaii, and doubts that they will take her seriously.

      Delete
  9. See, here's the thing. I think we're all trying to make statements from a place of logic, reasoning, facts and being in touch with reality and evidence. We are speaking an entirely different language than the Brio gang. Does. Not. Compute. It's actually quite sad.

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  10. Have any of you sent private messages to any of the people who "like" the brio page with links to the court cases and/or the news stories? I have done that with a couple of people I know that are fans of their page to try and protect them and they could not believe they had not heard the information before I sent it to them. Not sure how all this info is falling between the cracks and not getting out in a mainstream way.
    Is the reporter from channel 9 going to do a follow up story on brio? Anyone know?

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  11. Frankly I just caught wind of this a few days ago. I did disconnect myself as much as possible from her and her groups (I *think* I got them all) but I am still dubious about some of the 'facts' I have been reading. I have no judgement on either side but I am steering clear for my own sanity.

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  12. Maybe this blog could repost the court documents, and the recordings of Kyle's calls threatening Bradley if they don't hand over their company to him. I doubt if after listening to those calls you would ever have anything to do with them.

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  13. and does anyone have a list of all the aliases

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    Replies
    1. What aliases do you mean? A list of known facebook pages is in the main post. I have also heard from a few different sources that they suspect that Naomi is using fake profiles on Facebook. The suspicious profiles are a Jenn L. Peters who claims to live in Colorado, and a Sharon Walters who claims to be a midwife. I do not have proof that these profiles are run by Naomi, but I do trust the sources who sent me this information. I have seen posts by both of these profiles on birth pages in my own news feed, and what I have seen of the profiles for myself does look very suspicious, so I am steering clear of both.

      Delete
  14. Someone just pointed me to this blog and the request for the recordings of my conversations with Kyle. If you'd like to add them to this blog, let me know, and I will send them to the blog owner to post.

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  15. anything you want to send to me, I would be interested....carla hartley ancientartmail@gmail.com I post on google as infanticipating.blogspot

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  16. hum..I've been watching this coming for a wail...I asked Naomi about why they (TM)ed the site quite a wail ago.. There is also a domain in the same name and a page on the web...she never really answered me. So I stopped posting any advice..I was just posting information such as meeting, conferences etc..(I was told by one admin that that was not the purpose of the group so I stopped that) I think this is a real shame..and a real mess.. And I think we should get it out in the light of day.. Because, I think a lot of innocent Intellectual Knowledge has been shared on BPI and it would be a shame for a sweet idea to become a ripe off. I hope we are all wrong..but it does not look good.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Replies
    1. The lawsuit filed against Brio, Kyle Thomas, Naomi Thomas and Ellen Contard by Jay and Marjie Hathaway and the American Academy of Husband-Coached Childbirth at the end of 2010 is sort of the whole foundation for this blog as it was for the one that preceded it. If you look at the "Forms" tab at the top of this blog, you'll see many of the public record documents from the case. It was settled and Brio Birth et. al were ordered to pay $150,000 to the Hathaways (or was it $140K?). Along with that, there were a number of cease and desist letters presented to them by several parties and now this newest scam with the parking passes. It has been one thing after another from the beginning and it is clear from his history that Kyle Thomas has no interest in helping birthing women, only making easy money for himself with whatever means works, legal or not. Even after the ridiculous and illegal parking pass thing was aired on public news, he tried to talk his way out of it and rationalize his illegal actions. I'm sure if you are new coming into this and just starting to try to get caught up, it might be overwhelming, and all of us appreciate that you are trying to do your own research. Many of the people here were part of the victims being scammed from the beginning and had a moment of "revelation" so to speak. I'd encourage you, if you want details and the full story, to contact Ellen Contard, perhaps via Facebook or in some other form. The purpose of this blog is not to seek vengeance or to air bitter and angry dirty laundry. It is to serve as a warning for anyone else who could potentially get sucked into another scam. People have lost thousands and thousands of dollars and man hours and we don't want anyone else to get hurt.

      Delete
    2. The settlement was for $150,000. They paid $10,000 at the time of the settlement, but did not pay anymore, so they still owe $140,000.

      Delete
  18. Replies
    1. Sigh. They STILL have that page up? I thought they took it down.

      Still drives me nuts. I encourage pregnant women to park far away from stores to squeeze in little bits of exercise. When my boss offered to get me a "medical" parking pass during my 4th pregnancy to be able to use the "not quite legally handicapped, but we are a nice employer so we've saved some nice spaces for you" spaces in our corporate parking lot, I politely declined, telling him that the walk from my car to the building was an important part of my daily exercise--and we get a lot of ice where I live!

      If a pregnant woman has a medical reason that she needs to use the handicapped spots...she can get a regular handicapped tag through her care provider filling out the regular form...nothing on it excludes pregnant women.

      Delete
    2. The exercise is great. Unless there is ice on the ground, in which case the long walk creates a very significant risk. My friend actually almost lost a child this way. She slipped & fell when she was in her 3rd trimester & it was a very hard recovery. She broke her tailbone & had to deliver via c-section. The stickers would have their purpose if used appropriately. Just like most things.

      Delete
  19. Anything to collect a few more bucks before they hopefully disappear into the night. Unfortunately the damage they have done to the birth community will last for years.

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  20. the Brio web site is down. Anyone have any inside info on why?

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  21. Do you realize that you may be subject to legal action for defamation of character. Keep in mind that you have private posts here that mention individuals NOT connected with Brio Birth.

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    Replies
    1. I think it's been proven time and again that everyone is subject to legal action for anything, or nothing at all, especially by people who are determined to bully others and think that the legal system is a good tool for that. If anyone believes their character is being defamed by false statements, or has any other concerns about any of the content on this blog, they are welcome to contact me. I have already made accommodations when people contacted me with legitimate concerns - one such incident actually shows up in this post. I am not perfect, and I post a great deal of information that is given to me by third parties. I try to verify as much as I can independently, but sometimes that is out of the question. Fortunately, my sources tend to be pretty trustworthy, but mistakes and misunderstandings happen. I am happy to work with people. My sole goals with this blog are to get the truth about birth community scams out in the open to warn potential victims, and to create a safe space for victims to share their truth.

      Delete
  22. Are there links to the court records mentioned in this post regarding the possible assault charges?

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    Replies
    1. I do not have the transcript from the hearing, because it is quite expensive to obtain, and I am not going to get it unless I need it for subsequent legal action [which I do not as of this moment, though that may change]. Karl had said on the old Brio Vent that he was going to buy the transcript on a lark and read through it, and even post it publicly. I would honestly love it if he did - there's nothing in there that I want hidden [and a lot that I'd love those considering an association with Brio or the Thomases to see]. The only reason I haven't already posted it myself is the one that I gave above. However, I am more than willing to answer any questions regarding Kyle's assault on me. My email should be linked to this profile. If you want the questions and answers out in public for everyone to see, this older post might not be the best place, since I only even knew about this question since bsr pointed me to it and asked me to answer. I might miss it. So might everybody else. If I ever do wind up purchasing the transcript for any reason, I will happily send it to bsr for publication.

      Delete
    2. If there is really an assault charge, then where is the record? I can't believe there was an assault if you did not both charge him with it & it stuck.

      Delete
  23. https://www.facebook.com/groups/136350999172/
    She is admin with her husband and Cheryl Villareal.

    There is also the Brio Balance 'identity' https://www.facebook.com/briobalance

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  24. It's no wonder that Kyle and Naomi Thomas fled from Colorado to Utah, and then fled from Utah to Tolleson Arizona. Getting a judgement for over $140,000.000 against them, it's hard to collect when you keep moving.

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  25. if you are looking for kyle or Naomi Thomas they are in tolleson, az
    6201 S 99th Ave, Tolleson, AZ 85353
    (623) 696-0344
    for there cell phone
    (303) 514-2471
    they are doing all the things this blog is talking about at a new company Farmer Goose
    https://www.facebook.com/kyle.s.thomas?fref=ts
    and
    https://www.facebook.com/thebirthpro?fref=ts
    and they just play the victim card bad and hard

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  26. Wow. Y'all sound like some seriously wounded people. Sounds like this "Kylomi" couple has their own issues as well, but don't you think you've given your power away a little by having an entire hate blog about them?

    I'm so sad that I keep finding this in the natural birthing community. I'm exhausted from it. Makes me wanna get an epidural even though I'm not pregnant or laboring right now. I just want drugs to numb the pain I feel from knowing that so many women are not getting the attention they need & deserve because ya'll are so distracted with your fights with each other. Similar crap happened at the birth center I had my first two at and I saw it as well with a bunch of doulas in Utah (one was my friend/doula).

    I know I'll probably just get attacked for "defending" the alleged monster that "Kylomi" is, but you people like to get petty. After reading the lawsuit that the Hathaways made against Kyle & Naomi, I don't think I'll ever consider any kind of birth classes because I won't know if whatever method is just mediocre cause they crushed someone else that had a better plan in a petty lawsuit that actually had very little legal grounding (my FIL is an attorney- this lawsuit was a joke done by angry children with too much money).

    I always hoped that the world of natural birthing would help me heal from my own traumatic birth & childhood (repeat sexual molestation by many perps), but you guys have your own issues that obviously keep you too busy to help me get over something truly worse than being duped by some self-centered, head-in-the-sand capitalists that don't need your help to reap what they sow.

    Don't worry. I'm mature enough to know that I don't really need someone else to fix my problems. I have the power to create my own reality. Do you?

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  27. Maybe your FIL should go into practice with Naomi's family.

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  28. I started researching this Naomi Thomas woman because of a problem I was having with her regarding a transaction on Craigslist. She weaseled her way out of the transaction. Blamed it on her having 3 kids to take care of, she was ill,her child was sick and throwing up for two days, and then the old husband excuse. Just struck me as weird. So, I started looking in to who she was for some reason. I felt compelled. One thing led to another. Her Facebook page having no real friends or family. One Facebook page led me to another,and another, then her husband Kyle Thomas started popping up on different Facebook pages. It seemed shady. Everything led me to this page. WOW! I don't think I want to research those people any more! She is alive and messing with people here in Tolleson AZ. She is good at making excuses and acting like a victim. I have never met her and don't want to. This is so strange. But, my gut instinct was right about her. Her phone number now is 720-340-2229. A Colorado phone number.

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